This is an interview that was made possible by our space friend Eric who actually contacted Jerry Runyan before I did. This interview took place
over my speaker-phone and JR was kind enough to stick with the questionnaire in its entirety even though he could not hear me that well.
Thanks JR!
DY- So Jerry, what was the first band you were involved with?
JR- I believe that would have been the RAT MONSTERS.
DY- What! What time period was that?
JR- I would have to say early '70s.
DY- So you weren't involved in any projects in the 60's?
JR- I started playing guitar about '68 so I really wasn't good enough to be in a band until about '70 or '71
DY- Did the RAT MONSTERS do any recordings?
JR- Not at all, but we were an all original band. We sounded really good, we used to draw a big crowd just at our rehearsals.
DY- So, being a working musician during the early '70s in the area you were based, had you heard of WHITE WITCH before you got the gig
with RON?
JR- Sure, without a doubt. I actually had the first album and liked the music a lot. A friend of mine worked at a record store and he used to bring
over a bunch of different albums. The WHITE WITCH was one we checked out. It was definitely along the lines of the music I liked then.
DY- How did you end up hooking up with RON?
JR- It's kind of a long story. I was working out of Atlanta at the time with a band, just doing gigs, and I started working with RUSTY DAY who was
a singer with a band called CACTUS.
They had Bogart and Apice. They were a really good band but kind of obscure. Anyway, through an agent who had been booking us I was
informed that the group WHITE WITCH needed a guitarist. He said he could set me up with an audition!
DY- So, How did the audition go?
JR- I got it but it was kind of strange. I didn't really get the feeling that they were auditioning anybody else. (laughter) It wasn't because they were
so sure that they wanted me or anything like that. I think it was because they were not totally sure at that point which direction they all wanted to
go.
DY- Who was in the line up of WHITE WITCH at the time of your audition?
JR- It was RON GOEDERT of course, BUDDY PENDERGRASS, BOBBY SHEA, I thought they had a drummer named DAVID BRANON (?) I
think. I can't recall who the bass player was at that time.
DY- What time period was that?
JR- I've actually been checking all of my stuff since I first met up with you and saw the web site. I think it would have been '76. I thought it was '75
before but I think '76 is more accurate.
DY- How long were you with the band before you guys started recording?
JR- Well, we recorded the whole time I was with the band. We were constantly going into studios and working on material and writing songs
live, things like that. But we didn't have a record deal at that time. When I joined they were with out a deal. Sales of the second album had kind
of died out and they were hoping to get another deal but really, it was Capricorn that was in the midst of bankruptcy. So that was no longer an
option.
DY- Do you recall what reasons were given for PENDERGRASS and SHEA'S leaving the band?
JR- I'd have to say it was because of all the years they had spent on the road and stuff. They had been in the group since the beginning, they
recorded two albums, had a lot of success and played a lot of big shows. They had experienced the peek of the band already. When I joined it
was at the very beginning of their decline. I mean that in record sales, not talent. It was a difficult period. They were really unsure if they even
wanted to replace RICHARDSON or continue on with shows.
DY- When you played live with the band were you still playing material from the first album?
JR- Yes! We played both albums. That's what I really liked about those albums. It was a lot of fun to play! I mean, I played a lot of guitar parts that
BUDDY RICHARDSON wrote! And I am very proud of that because he is an extremely tasteful player. BUDDY PENDERGRASS was very
demanding musically so he wanted the songs to sound like the record and I did to so I did my best to try and portray RICHARDSON'S parts
accurately. We also had some of our own new material as well. And they had a few songs that weren't on either of the two releases.
DY- Wow! Were there ever any recordings of that music?
JR- There was! Yea.
DY- I wonder where that is?
JR- I have no doubt that Capricorn had a lot of out takes. Capricorn studios, I actually saw the master tapes of the out takes there and that's
also where our out takes were stored when we did our RON GOEDERT recordings for Polydor because we actually did our recording in
Capricorn studios.
DY- So you think its possible that the tapes are in their possession?
JR- It's in somebody's possession. They were kept in a vault like most studio's use for the master material. So it was a secure situation for that
material. But you know, WHITE WITCH was only some of the music that was in that vault. They had massive amounts of recordings by the
ALLMAN BROTHERS and every band that went through there.
DY- What about the name STARCHILD? Was that the band's name at some point?
JR- (laughter) I found a STARCHILD (formerly WHITE WITCH) flyer that was in some of my leftover memorabilia. Yes. You asked why
PENDERGRASS and SHEA left the group. Like I had said, it was a very challenging time for everyone. RON and myself really wanted to
continue playing! As WHITE WITCH but because BUDDY and BOBBY left the group it changed the outlook and the sound of the band. RON
wanted to change the name, start something new and go in an original direction and STARCHILD was more or less the project that he came up
with. STARCHILD was actually RON, myself, RIFF and JACK WEST.
DY- I was wondering when RIFF and JACK came into the picture.
JR- It would have been around '77 or '78
DY- I found some singles by you guys, KIDS OF AMERICA being one of them, and I noticed that it sounded different then the LP version.
JR- Yes, it was different. There were several songs that we released, BACKBONE was one we released as a single. That was also different
from the album version. I told your friend ERIC that both of those songs sound better on the single version to me.
DY- Oh, really?
JR- Yes, because I was there and we recorded it better. When we went in to do the album they said, "No, we are not going to use the 45
versions, we are going to re-record everything". I felt it wasn't quite as fresh when you're doing it for the hundredth time.
DY- What was your favorite cut off of the BREAKING ALL THE RULES album?
JR- The best cuts were not on the album. It's sad, the sessions that we did were long and productive but all the songs that I liked didn't make the
record. The producers decided what went on that LP. Our best song was a song called THIS DAY IS MINE, which we played for years and we
always got a great response live. We recorded a very good version of it and we had guest players and everything but they told us that we
couldn't put any ballads on the album. As far as the songs that did make it on the album, I would have to say, because of the guitar work, I like
DARK IN THE OLD CHURCH and as far as just good pure song writing I like 20/20.
DY- Great choices! I love the little jazz thing that happens at the end of DARK IN THE OLD CHURCH. That's the kind of thing that made the first
WW LP and I thought 20/20 sounded very early '80s pop which still kept the song writing a little before its time.
JR- 20/20 was a difficult one to record for me because we had played that song for years and when we went into the studio the producers were
saying "No, we don't like that guitar part, write something else." (laughter) That's what I did but I knew the first one sounded better.
DY- Didn't RON produce that album along with someone else?
JR- KURT KINZEL was the main producer.
DY- Yes, he worked with VANDER GRAAF GENERATOR as well.
JR- He was a pretty well respected producer in some circles. He worked with most of the Capricorn artists.
DY- RIFF said the he actually had some unused tracks from that LP session, do you have anything like that?
JR- Yea, but not in any kind of decent format that would lend itself to re-mastering. But I have tons of old tapes. Live and studio stuff.
(Fantasy part)
DY- CAN I HAVE THEM?
JR- SURE, I'LL HAVE SOME NAKED GIRLS BRING THEM BY YOUR HOUSE LATER TONIGHT ALONG WITH TWO THOUSAND
DOLLARS OF PURE SPENDING MONEY!
(Back to reality)
DY- Sorry JERRY, I was drifting off in thought. I was wondering if you have any recollection or interesting stories about the day of the photo
shoot for the cover?
JR- Well sure, First off, I hated the album cover.
I think that cover was responsible for the low sales of that album. The problem with it was WHITE WITCH was a band that was way ahead of its
time with their sound and look and now we were a band that looked behind the times. By that I mean, the style of clothes we were wearing on
that cover was totally out of style by the late '70s.
We were just so caught up in our live shows and recording the album that I really didn't have a firm grip on what the public was buying at the
time. I only knew what I was playing and doing. So they got is in the alley to do the shots and we were all wearing our regular leather jackets and
jeans. Somehow we got around to saying, "Hey, let's get into our stage costumes." What you see on that album cover is some of the stuff we
wore on stage. We would change costumes almost ten times in each show.
DY- So your new project kept up the old WW tradition with the theatrics?
JR- No doubt about it. Our fire works probably got bigger! It was like WCW. (laughter) We had massive explosions and all sorts of stuff that
RON had carried over from the WW days. Every song had its own stage thing like, WE'LL ALL RIDE HIGH we had this huge hobby horse that
RON would get on.
DY- I heard about that horse!
JR- It would change over the years. RON used a lot of different horses. I have very vivid memories of RON falling off the end of the stage still
riding on it all the way down. (much laughter)
DY- I was wondering if you guys had any SPINAL TAP moments.
JR- Oh millions!
DY- RIFF had also mentioned that I should ask RON something about "airbrushing"... Do you know anything about that?
JR- Well I only know what comments I've heard about it. I can only say that the producer mentioned something about socks (laughter)
DY- Did you guys continue on after that LP came out?
JR- Yea sure, I'm going to try to send you more stuff and a lot of it is pictures and back stage passes from a lot of the dates that we did. Some
of our biggest dates came after the release of that album. We did shows with TOTO, JOE PERRY and ZZ TOP. We toured the east coast and
things like that.
DY- Did you interact much with the other artist you did shows with?
JR- Sure, we got to spend some time with JOE PERRY. His band told us that we knew him better then they did. ZZ TOP were very nice guys. I
spent a little time talking to BILLY GIBBONS. One of my favorite moments was getting to meet EDGAR WINTER. I had always been a big fan of
his music and we played in Boston with him.
DY- Great, How long did you guys continue playing after the BREAKING ALL THE RULES LP?
JR- It went on for a few months, you talk about a downhill slide. Everybody had given it a lot of years so as the gigs kind of tapered off we were
looking at going back to playing bars and things like that and some of us were not as enthused about trying to keep it together for another
album. When the group finally split up there was a lot that kept us from getting back together. Like Frank Fenter who got us our deal with
POLYDOR had passed away unexpectedly of a heart attack. And our manager passed away self-inflicted. It was just a really rough time.
DY- Who initiated the break-up? Who finally said, "It's over"?
JR- To tell you the truth I can't recall. It was just like one week I got in from our gig and the next week I have a gig with some other band. I'm sure
there was a lot going on but, nobody was fighting or anything like that. We just kind of stopped because we didn't have the enthusiasm for the
gigs we had coming up. And when POLYDOR dropped our option for the second album we just decided to do other things.
DY- What did you do after the GOEDERT project?
JR- I continued on with other projects. I played with RIFF and we tried to get our own band going and then he got the chance to join MOLLY
HATCHET and at the time they were big and I told him, "Go for it". That's why we were all playing and working for. I was happy for him.
DY- Did you continue playing music or did you just drop out of the scene?
JR- I never quit playing music. I've been in numerous bands since then, all of them basically unsigned bar bands and things like that.
DY- Have you kept in touch at all with RON?
JR- I have not. I have not spoken to him and wouldn't even know how to get in touch with him or any of those guys. Finding your web site and
reading the interviews was probably more interesting to me then anybody else because I was there for part of it and a lot of it I didn't even know.
Nobody ever told me how they felt about things.
DY- So you guys worked together but did you hang out with each other? Were you friends?
JR- We didn't really hang out, I'd hang out a little bit with RON and later on with RIFF and JACK because they were friends of mine from before
but, with the other guys in WHITE WITCH, no. BUDDY P was already married and I didn't know the drummer and bass player that well at all.
BOBBY SHEA was real nice! We hung out a little bit.
DY- Yes, I just met BOBBY after the TROPICS show but we didn't get a chance to speak much. I hope to interview him eventually. I still don't
know if I will ever get RON to do an interview. I think he wants to see what everybody else has to say before he says anything. He seems like a
real nice guy so he will not say NO to an interview but I suspect I will not get one any time soon.
JR- That's smart! (Laughter)
DY- Jerry, are there any new bands that you like?
JR- Not too many. There are a few songs I hear on the radio that I think are OK but all the music I listen to is still the older stuff… Records.
DY- What would we find in JERRY RUNYAN'S record collection?
JR- Same thing I always listened to, HENDRIX, DEEP PURPLE and all the bands with the killer guitars, ERIC CLAPTON. That's what I grew up
playing and that's what I enjoy.
DY- Who would you say was one of your musical inspirations as a young man?
JR- Certainly HENDRIX, like I said earlier, It was very revealing to read your interview with BUDDY P because obviously I had no idea that he
was opposed to HENDRIX style music (laughter). It makes me realize more why at the time he wanted to leave the band. After BUDDY
RICHARDSON left, certainly the music went in a different direction, it was getting a little more
aggressive I guess. I always liked HENDRIX then I moved on to stuff like JIMMY PAGE and JEFF BECK.
DY- Do you still write music for yourself?
JR- Oh yes!
DY- And do you record it?
JR- I recorded lots of work and I've had some airplay on the web here recently with sessions I did with a band called CALABAN'S FACE, They
are kind of alternative band.
I co-wrote some of the tunes and play all the guitar parts on them. But that's just one project, currently I'm working with kind of a blues band. We
do gigs around Orlando.
DY- I regret that we didn't get to hook up while I was in Tampa. If it is cool with you I would like to meet up
with you at some point and get more photos and stories from you?
JR- You bet! Maybe it will even coincide with a gig!
DY- That would be great!
There you have it spacefriends! If you are following the WW saga you must know that it is still unfolding. JR has been in contact with us since
this interview and says that the CALABAN'S FACE CD is doing very good! And we are all putting our heads together over this BREAKING
ALL THE RULES CD! No one has worked harder on this then our spacefriend Eric and when it is all said and done, he will be one of the main
people that is in line for our thanks. Thank you Eric and Thank You JERRY R for your time and cooperation!
TAKE ME BACK TO BREAKING ALL THE RULES
W}{W
